How timely
March 10, 2008
As all of you that have been reading this blog recently know, I am guildless. Over the last month or so I got a bit more serious trying to find a new guild. There are precious few good posts out there addressing this issue. I wish I could give you a complete walkthrough on “How to find the guild of your dreams in 10 days or less”, but I just don’t think it’s that easy.
I’ll share with you how I approached this, and found what I hope is a good fit, in a bit. First though I want to send you to a nice little post over on Gray Matter. If you haven’t read or heard of this blog before, you may want to add it to your list. Gray Matter doesn’t post often, but true to his blog’s title, it’s usually a well-reasoned, thoughtful post.
Anyway, one of his recent posts, entitled So you’re looking for a Raiding Guild, offered several great suggestions on what Gray Matter’s guild looks for in a guild applicant and some insights to their decision process. The post doesn’t address how to find the guild to apply to, but is good reading on “having your house in order” when you apply.
Some fairly obvious points are made on having your talent spec in order and decent gear. Then there is a short section on your guild application. This is the section I think is where Gray Matter really makes a good point, and it’s nothing more complicated than provide detailed answers, use good grammer and don’t be a jackass. At least, you would think that was simple.
Late last week I applied online to a guild that I found through my research. They seem like a good guild at the progression level that matches me, with a good approach to WoW/RL balance. Their website has a forum in which you apply. You copy and paste the guild application questions into a new forum post and give your answers. I applied and was asked to contact them ingame for further conversation, but I got a couple post replies from guild officers saying “great app”. Normally I would take this as a compliment, but then I looked at the other three apps in the forum.
These apps were cleaned up over the weekend. Too bad, as I was hoping to give you some screen shots of them. Totally pathetic. Three word answers, bad grammer, l33t speak, etc. etc.
I’m not sure what I’m trying to say here, or even if I’m trying to make a point. I understand that many of the folks that play this game are in their younger teen years, and I’m not expecting them to write like they’re applying to law school or something. And I suppose I’ll sound like a grumpy old bear when I ask what’s so hard about spelling words correctly, forming complete sentences, and showing a little humility? You are after all, asking someone to let you into their club. If it’s obvious you have no investment or interest in anything or anyone other than yourself, then all you’re saying is “I think I can get what I want out of you guys and I’m going to bail as soon as I don’t”.
It’s no wonder then that not only were the three apps I saw in the application forum for this guild denied, but the reason two out of the three were denied is the applicant never even followed up and contacted the guild officer as requested.
/climbs off soapbox
So, if you’re in the process of applying to a raiding guild, check out Gray Matter’s post on how they at least would approach your application.
And in case you’re interested, here’s how I approached my guild research:
- I started with wowjutsu.com, to find the guilds on my server that were around the same progression level as me. It’s not perfect, but it will get you a good start (click Realms, then click on your server name).
- Clicking on the guild name in the search results gives you detailed information about the guild. From here I was trying to find guilds that weren’t already overloaded with Druids, had a reasonable number of members without being too big, and looked like they were proficient in the raids I was targeting.
- With this “short list” of guilds in hand, I did two things: weeded out certain guilds based on members I had grouped with in the past or behaviour I had noticed on my server. This wasn’t many guilds, but we all know a guild or two like this. Second, I tried to associate guilds with people I may have pugged with in the past that were especially helpful.
- Next, I did some searching for guild websites. I don’t care if my guild has a website or not frankly, but guild websites are a great way to find out what a guild philosophy is all about and get a feel for their members. Check out the raiding rules, check out their application, check out requirements to see if you are a fit. Most of all, check out their forums if you can. A guild’s forum are a great way to get a sense for the guild’s behaviour and attitudes. Sure the forums tend to be populated with only the most active guild members - but those same people are probably the ones driving the guild’s culture anyway.
- Hopefully by this time you’ve narrowed down your list to a small number of guilds. If you have the time, look for some of these folks while you’re playing. If they are doing a daily, offer to help them and see what they’re like. Ask them some questions about their guild. This may be helpful in getting a sense for whether they are a fit and vice versa.
- Finally, it’s time to just pick and apply. I ended up just picking one and applying to it. You may want to pick more than one. If you’re applying to more than one, then you may want to be up front in your application about that fact.
So no pearls of wisdom there, but hopefully some ideas that may help if you’re looking for a new guild. If anyone has other good ideas, please comment. If I get enough, I’ll put together a guide.
Hopefully, I’ll be having a chat with the guild I applied to soon. I’ll let you know how it goes.
Posted in World of Warcraft
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March 10th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
Thanks for the link.
I had thought about making a post similar to yours, but since you have already done it I will just comment on a yours.
WowJutsu - Not a horrible place to start but it has some problems. You have to take its rankings with a grain of salt since it is based on the Armory and the Armory has serious issues. Take WA’s ranking for example. It says we have cleared SSC, TK, and are well into Hyjal. Unfortunately we are only 5/6 SSC, 1/4, TK and have never stepped foot in Hyjal. Members that left WA are what caused our ranking to jump. Another problem is that it shows historical success. It gives you no indication of how the guild is doing currently. While WA as a whole is 5/6 SSC and 1/4 TK, the new WA is only 1/6 SSC and 0/4 TK. Despite these problems WowJutsu does give you a decent list as you stated.
Guild Websites - You said you don’t care if a guild has a website or not, but I won’t apply to a guild that doesn’t have one. Guild websites are so easy to get there isn’t an excuse for not having one. Lack of a website is an indication that the guild is not organized and not all that serious about raiding.
WoW Forums - Maybe I missed it but I didn’t see you mention this resource. Your realm forums can quickly tell you who is recruiting, what they are looking for, and where they are at progression wise. It is also an ok place to research a guilds reputation.
Raid Schedule - In my opinion this is the most important thing to look for in a guild. If you can’t raid when they do there is no point in appling. Guild progession will improve. Strong applicants can be accepted despite no need for the class. The one thing no guild can really comprimise on is raid schedule, if it doesn’t work there it won’t work at all.
Finally, I wouldn’t app to more than one guild at a time. Most guild officers I know tend to look at the other guilds forums, and may have played with members of the other guild. Seeing that you have apps at a lot of guilds can hurt you even if they are closed. No guild wants a guild hopper and no guild wants to be used as a stepping stone. App to one guild. Give it a week. If nothing happens look for your next opportunity.
March 10th, 2008 at 10:49 pm
Graylo - great comments. I agree on the Wowjutsu stuff and had intended to put something like that in the post and forgot. I’ll add it to the updated post.
On the websites, I do think you can be organized without a website, but you have a point well taken. As long as there is published raid schedule, and a place/way to signup, then I’m good. Personally, I don’t need a shout box, pics of boss kills, and guild-specific forums, but that’s just me.
I really haven’t checked out the WoW guild forums, assuming they were as bad as the other forums. With your recommendation, if my current app doesn’t work out, then I’ll head there. I did check out guildcafe.com, kind of a community site for roleplay gamers, and found some decent postings there. Downside is you have to register and there isn’t a lot of traffic.
On the “only one app at a time” - I wholeheartedly agree. I think this shows respect to the guild and shows committment.
Good points and I’ll work them into an updated guide in the near future.
March 11th, 2008 at 2:19 am
Wowjutsu also will not help beginning raiders — it will not show any guilds who are just beginning to learn Kara — you have to get probably as far as Shade of Aran before you will have enough points to go over their threshold.
They also update very infrequently at the bottom of their list (even if you request an update). My guild, for example, can regularly clear Attumen and Moroes (even if it still takes us a few attempts on Moroes), but Wowjutsu still only has data from our very first week’s clear of Attumen only.
As far as gear information, as Graylo points out, it only picks up information from the armory — so if a player picks up an off-spec item, or logs out in their solo set instead of their raiding set, items will be missed. (E.g., if a feral druid gets Bracers of the White Stag because no resto druid is around, it probably won’t get picked up by the armory — how often will a feral log out in a caster set?).
I’ve no advice on finding a guild — the core of my guild is buddies from a NWN PW that migrated to WoW about a year and a half ago. But I wish you good luck with the new guild.